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Want to unlock the secrets of cultivating a thriving organizational culture that boosts staff engagement, productivity and retention?
On today's episode Tim and Nathan uncover four key elements for creating a culture that people genuinely love. From defining your core mission, vision, and values to the crucial role of open communication in fostering trust, the discussion leaves no stone unturned.
In this encouraging and enlightening episode, the guys also explore the power of love and relationships in the workplace. It's not always about big gestures; often, it's the small ones that make the most significant impact. Showing genuine interest in your employees' lives, recognizing their accomplishments, and providing growth opportunities all play into creating a positive, supportive environment.
This episode provides a number of actionable strategies and insights that can help you transform your organizational culture. Get ready to be inspired, challenged, and equipped with the knowledge to make a real difference in your organization. Tune in and start your journey towards a better organizational culture today!
The Hosts of The Practice of NonProfit Leadership:
Tim Barnes serves as the Executive Vice President of International Association for Refugees (IAFR) and can be contacted at tim@iafr.org.
Nathan Ruby serves as the Executive Director of Friends of the Children of Haiti (FOTCOH) and can be contacted at nruby@fotcoh.org.
All opinions and views expressed by the hosts are their own and do not necessarily represent those of their respective organizations.
Organizational culture starts with vision, mission and values. As an executive director, if you don't clearly identify that, you can't even begin to work on or improve culture.
Tim Barnes:Welcome to episode 99 of the Practice of Nonprofit Leadership. I'm Tim Barnes and I'm Nathan Ruby.
Nathan Ruby:Well, good morning Tim. How are you today?
Tim Barnes:Hey, I am doing just great.
Nathan Ruby:Awesome, awesome. Well, Tim and I got to do something pretty fun earlier this week.
Tim Barnes:We sure did. Next week is going to be our 100th episode of the Practice of Nonprofit Leadership Woo-hoo. And to celebrate we asked Christina Edwards of the Purpose and Profit Club podcast to sit down with us and just have a conversation about our podcast.
Nathan Ruby:We did and we talked about a lot of stuff. We talked about how we got started, we talked about our why, which is, you know, why are we even doing this? And then we ended up the conversation with where we headed what's the next 100 episodes going to be like?
Tim Barnes:I liked it. We actually talked about what we've learned, what our challenges were, kind of both the good, the bad and the ugly, you know, and that. But it was a really fun conversation I think. And actually that episode is going to drop on August 16th, so you can look forward to that and I hope you jump in and listen to it on that day. I think you'll have some fun with it. So, with that said, nathan, let's get rolling on today's topic. What are we going to talk about?
Nathan Ruby:Well, today we are going to talk about organizational culture, and if you are a regular listener, you might be saying oh, come on, guys, we've already covered this and you'd be right, we have talked about this before and we actually do weave it in to several of our episodes. But what we're talking about today, we're talking about this today because organizational culture is that important.
Tim Barnes:It is, you could have the best qualified staff, a big budget and a unique program, and without a good, positive culture, your organization just won't thrive. Even though we talk about this topic on a regular basis, we approach it from a slightly different perspective, I think. So, nathan, let's dive in and let's get going.
Nathan Ruby:All right. So today our topic is four ways that you can build a better organizational culture. Now, before we get started, there are two things that you have to remember about organizational culture. First, it takes forever to change or shift. So think about the Titanic with a little tiny rudder, and given enough space and enough time, that little tiny rudder will indeed turn that ship in a different direction. But if the iceberg is dead ahead, you probably aren't going to have enough time to make that turn in time. So it takes time. Secondly, changing organizational culture is not a one and done thing. You can't say well, I tried that one thing that you told me and it didn't work. You have to do it again, and again and again. Then refer to point number one, that it takes time. Organizational culture takes years to change. Now you may see some early changes taking place in a few months and you may have some early wins, which is great, but to lock in a new culture, you're talking years, tim. Why is this important? Why are we actually talking about this today?
Tim Barnes:Well, I think it's important to understand that the organizational culture of a nonprofit organization plays a vital role in determining the success of an organization. A positive organizational culture could lead to higher levels of staff engagement, for example, or increased productivity and improved staff retention rates. Nathan, we've had conversations with leaders of organizations and even people outside of an organization who know what the culture is of other organizations and of people getting ready to jump ship just because the culture is toxic, which starts with the leader of the organization and runs down. So we see it all the time it comes up in our conversations how important that organizational culture is in keeping your employees excited and moving forward.
Nathan Ruby:This is not just a nonprofit issue. This is every organization and even if it's a business or nonprofit or civic organization or church or whatever it is, all of those entities have cultures that are from within. And you spend any time talking to neighbors or friends or relatives and you hear those stories about oh, this is happening at work, and this is happening at work and this happens again and again and again, and pretty soon you can see that culture coming out and it's like, oh gosh, I wouldn't want to work there. You know, once in a while it's like, oh my gosh, I would love to work there, but that's a positive culture. So it's not just a nonprofit issue, it's every organization issue. So that's why we hit it over and over again.
Tim Barnes:And I want to emphasize something you said earlier it's not a one and done. This is something you have to continually have your radar up to say how is our culture, how is our staff doing? Is there a good, positive sense of who we are and what we're trying to do? Absolutely so all right.
Nathan Ruby:Well, let's hop into it. Let's do a couple of things today. So the first one is clearly define the organization's mission, vision and values. And that is basically where are we going? An organization is I'm not saying that it's necessarily a railroad track, but an organization needs to go in one direction and your staff, your volunteers, your donors, other stakeholders, the people that you serve, they all need to know clearly where the organization is going so they can decide if they want to invest their time and talents and their energy to help get it there. And I kind of use the description of the railroad tracks, because railroad track can curve and turn, but generally it goes in one direction. It's not going this way for a little bit, and then 90 degrees for a little bit, and then 180 degrees a little bit and then back to 90. It's going north, or it's going south or east or west or northwest, whatever. It's not constantly changing its destination of where it's going. It's going to one place and it is important to remember that when you clearly establish vision, mission and values, not everyone wants to go, will want to go where you're going. That's okay. You know, either they get with the program, they get on board with what you're trying to do or you need to help them find a new organization to engage with, and that could be a board member, it could be staff, it could be a volunteer. It's sometimes hard to help a volunteer out the door but you know, sometimes it's got to be done and when you clearly define vision, mission and values, it is much, much easier to have a good, exciting, positive organizational culture. One other thing in vision, mission and values is don't undervalue the importance of values. It's kind of a tongue twister, tim. Don't undervalue the importance of values. You know there's a lot of effort and thought given to vision and mission. I mean, those are, those are tops that come up often over and over again and just about every organization again, whether it's nonprofit or for profit, everybody has a mission statement. You know, and this is what we're trying to do, this is how we're changing the world. But values are just as important and sometimes maybe even a little more important, because values will dictate how you make decisions and you know, if you have a value of excellence, let's say that's your value, we are going to be excellent and everything that we do. Then having weeds in the sidewalk walking up or, you know the front, walk up to the front door of the organization. That's not acceptable. You can't have weeds in the sidewalk cracks and say that that we value. You know being exceptional. So now, if that's not one of your values, okay, then maybe it is okay. Maybe your value is, you know, we have as little staff as possible and spend every penny we can on the program, okay, well, if that's your value, then sure, having some weeds in the cracks of the sidewalk is okay. So you have to make sure that your values line up with how you actually function, and that goes back to your corporate culture.
Tim Barnes:I think a lot of times we you see organizations put their values out there and it kind of feels more aspirational than actually living it out. And we want to get to the place where, if we put those out there, people say, oh yeah, we actually get it because we see it, rather than really that doesn't. That's not lining up, and so we need to be honest about what our values are and how we live those out.
Nathan Ruby:Yeah, and actually that it. That's a great point, tim. You actually can have aspirational values. You can have your list of values and then a separate list of aspirational values, and so basically, it's, this is who we are now. Now, this is who we're striving to be. We're not there yet, but this is what we're working towards and that's totally cool. I've seen organizations that do that, and so that works. But it is some of my kids. They come home and they talk about their jobs and they see hypocrisy. Maybe I don't know if that's the right word or not, but they're told one thing, but then they see their managers do another thing and they see it and they come home and they talk to us about it. And so if you're the executive director and your staff and your volunteers, and if your mouth is saying this is our vision, this is our vision, this is our values, this is what's important to us, and then your staff and volunteers and donors see you doing something else, you got a big disconnect and that's a bad culture to be leading. Next is communication. Communication. You know communication comes up in everything you know it's it's you can. You can weave communication into just about any topic that you want, but within this, this topic, it is. If there is a lack of communication, then you create this vortex of doubt, and when people don't know what's going on, it is human nature to fill in the blank with their own answers. And seldom in my experience, tim, and I'm probably yours too, when you have staff and you have volunteers and you have donors who don't understand what's going on and they start filling in the blank with their own answers, it is seldom, if ever, positive for you or the organization.
Tim Barnes:Communication is challenging too, especially if you're in a growth situation. You know, if you have just a couple of you that start the organization, you're all really excited. But then you start bringing people in and they move in different directions and all the once you were in the inner circle, but now you're not in the inner circle and it's like hey, I need to know that or I want to know that. I mean, communication can be very, very complicated and I think it's to be honest, I think it's one of the biggest challenges as a leader to really get it right, yeah, and to understand. Okay, to always be thinking who do I need to communicate this to? Who needs to know? Who wants to know? Who's it going to impact? So we need to communicate.
Nathan Ruby:So it's a challenging topic and, just like we said at the beginning of the show, that you can't, the culture is not a one and done thing, it's an over and over and over thing, just like communication is the same thing. You can't do it once and say, okay, folks, this is our new direction, this is the new culture that we're going to put in. We're going to do XYZ ABC. We're getting on board with that and then going on about your day and never coming back to it tomorrow or the next day or the next day. It's constant, it's over and over and over again before people will let it sink into who they are. So this is not a one and done either. But in my experience again, most people will get on board with the direction that you're meeting if they feel that they understand what's happening and they've had input. And I think often, even if they don't agree totally with where you're going or what you're trying to choose, as long as they understand, as long as they've had discussion, they've been able to participate and even let's put an example out there Say, you're at a staff meeting and you're the executive director. There's some pieces of culture that I'd like to change and we're going to be focused on this thing, and what do you think about that? Give me some feedback. Well, even if they don't provide the actual feedback, they got the chance, they had the opportunity. Maybe they didn't feel like they needed to, but they will walk out of that meeting or subsequent meetings and say you know what? I had my chance to say something and so I felt that I've had input into it, and I do think in the nonprofit world that opportunity for feedback and for a group discussion is probably a little more important than maybe in the for-profit world. I don't know, tim, if you agree with that or not.
Tim Barnes:Yeah, I don't know, maybe, yeah, I just I want to say, though, I think communication is so important because so I heard somebody say you know, for example, vision leaks, you know, so you can like, you say you can say something, and it's like well, I've told you that, so it should be that way. And I feel like we probably, as executive directors, we need to over communicate. We almost need to communicate to the point where we're kind of sick of ourselves saying it, but you don't realize how important that is to continue to put it out there. We'll get to this about being consistent, but consistently saying the same thing is really, is really important, and that's that's. I mean, you kind of you have so many things, so many balls, you're kind of got up in the air and it's easy to go. Ok, I did that, let me go do my other stuff, but I need to keep being on the top of the of the chart.
Nathan Ruby:Yeah, and yeah, that could spend back to why being the executive director of a small organization is so difficult. Because if you add it up all of the things, tim, that you and I say, this is really important. You really need to be doing this. That's like, that's like a 90 hour a week job and it is hard but it is important. And I think last little thing on communication is you know, everybody should have an opportunity to have input, but not everybody gets to make the decision. The final decision is you as the executive director, and if you feel that what is best for the organization, best for the people that you serve, is to, you know, continue in the direction you're going, or to alter the direction or make some adjustments, that is your job to do that. And so you explain why you get people a chance to have input in that, and then you lead, and then you go in that direction and those that get excited about it get excited about it, and those that don't don't, and that's okay, all right. Next is trust, and people have got to trust you, and if they don't trust you, you're never going to have a good, positive culture in your organization. So how do you do that. Well, first, consistent, just like Tim was talking about do what you say you're going to do, and it sounds pretty simple, but for some of us that is that is a little harder I have to be aware of, of doing what I say I'm going to do, because sometimes I speak as I think, and so I will be talking about something and processing it simultaneously as I'm speaking and it will come out of. People will interpret what I'm saying oh well, this is what we're doing. Well, it's not what we're doing. I'm thinking that that's what we may do, but I'm processing it. So I learned early in my executive director career that I had to stop doing that and I had to make sure that I did all of that talking out loud, you know, at home or in the car, where there wasn't anybody, until I really knew what I was going to do, and then bring it up. So you've got to be consistent.
Tim Barnes:I think that's hard too If you're a little bit of a people pleaser. You want people to, you know, you want people to like you, you want people to, you know, get it, get on board. And so you kind of say these things and then later you go what the heck did I? Just what I said, I was going to do what you know. And I like your idea of just hey, stop, before you say anything, just step back and go, okay, and and you know what it's okay to say I don't know, oh, yeah, well, I'm not sure. Sometimes we feel like, okay, we've got to give an answer. But if you say I'm not sure, I'm going to go back and think about that and do some research and then I'll come back and let you know, that's okay. But that's hard for us because we want to give the answer right now.
Nathan Ruby:Right, and feel like we know what we're doing and you'll feel like we're leading right, tim, it's like that's what we're supposed to do. Well, if you, if you don't know the answer, and you say you know what, I just I need a day to think about it, I need some time to think about it, I will get back to you and then you actually get back to them and give them the answer. That's being consistent. So another example of that is if you want to have a happy, positive workplace, then you have to show up excited, happy, ready to work, with a pleasant disposition. You know, maybe not 100% of the time, but like 96% of the time. You know it doesn't mean you can't be human and it doesn't mean that you can't have bad days or have moments. And there's things that happen in our lives. You know. There's family stuff going on, there's things we don't. We don't work in a vacuum. We live in the world and things interact with us and we bring baggage to work with us. But in spite of the baggage that that I bring to work, I can choose to be happy, to be pleasant, to interact well with people and and be concerned about them and what's going on in their life and work together in a positive place. That's a choice. And if, if you so that's just an example If you want a happy, positive place of work or you know environment, then you got to bring it every day. Next, in that reliable. Now, reliable sounds a little like consistent, but it's. It's really different. And reliable means I can count on you to have my back, and that means something different for each group of people that you would work with. So for staff, let's say staff. So staff knows you're reliable if you will support them even if they make a mistake. So if you were going to, if a staff person makes a mistake and you just rip into them out in the hallway or at the next staff meeting in front of their peers and you just read them the riot act, well, you're not reliable. They can't count on you when they need you. And you got to be. You got to be reliable, all right.
Tim Barnes:Yeah, go ahead. I was just. I can remember a time when I was in a situation where I was leading a part of our organization and and I had an opportunity to make a decision and I made a poor decision. I didn't think it through and I and I made a mistake. And I remember my leader at that time going before our board the board that he had to give an account to and grab it and taking my back on that, saying you know what? He made a bad decision. But he stood up for me and said you know, look at the consistency, look at what's normally going on. I just appreciated that I could, that I could trust him, that he was willing to step in. Now, outside that meeting, he looked at me and he goes don't you ever do that again. I appreciate that as well.
Nathan Ruby:I did you. Did you ever make that mistake?
Tim Barnes:again. I did not make that decision. I did not make that mistake again left an impression on you.
Nathan Ruby:Did it well, it did yeah.
Tim Barnes:But but you know, and even even having your back doesn't mean you're like, oh, it's okay, that's fine. Right okay, I know who you are. I see the leadership in you, I'm with you, but let's not let that happen again.
Nathan Ruby:Yeah, it doesn't mean that there's not consequences. It doesn't mean you don't address it. It doesn't mean you just you address it in private, one-on-one, saying, hey, what happened there? What, what you know? Why did you make that decision? Let's talk through how we do it again next time. And all right on donors so for donors to trust you and for you to be reliable, are you going to share with me how you're going to use my money and then deliver on that promise? So if you, if you're gonna tell me that you are Doing acts, then are you actually doing acts? Is that how you're using my money? So are you gonna tell me and then are you gonna deliver on that promise? Board members, are you gonna tell me what I need to know and not waste my time? Are you gonna run a board meeting so that we get through the material that we need to get through in an hour and 20 minutes, or Are you gonna let four people on the board dominate the conversation and take us three hours to do what we could have done in an hour and 20 minutes? So are you gonna tell me what I need to know? And and are you gonna tell me the truth, or are you gonna pull one over on me or maybe not tell me the whole truth so that you don't really know what's going on. Board members have got to trust you, and if they don't trust you, oh man, that is that's. That's a tough, tough place to be in. And last one, end users and end users are. Those are the people that are benefiting from your program. But whatever Deliverables that your organization does, these are the people who benefit. And so you, you, the organization, you are providing a solution that I, the end user, I need, and are you gonna offer me that Solution in a way that will meet my needs? So what I'm trying to say here you have somebody who has come to you for help, and whatever Shape where format that looks like, but somebody is has come to you and said I need help, please help me. Are you going to help me? And so they've got to know that you're going to provide that help or that support and a meaningful way and with dignity and with purpose and with a smile on your face, and you're gonna treat me like a human being so that I can get what I need to do better in my life. And if you don't deliver on that, if you're not reliable in that, then you're again. Your, your culture Will suffer because of that. Let's go to the next one, tim love, and I think of all of the ones on the list, I think this is my favorite. And you know, as we know, there are all kinds of different types of love, and In this case we're talking about Having a love just for your fellow human being. And so how does that, how does that come out? How does that expression of love come out? Well, here's a couple of examples. First one is you care about them as human beings first, and Staff or volunteer second. So, care about them as a human being first and staff or volunteer second. So what does that look like? So you could go to a staff person that is reporting to you and you see them in the hallway, or you walk into that office and the first thing you say is did you finish that report I asked for yesterday? Okay, well, that is pretty much establishing that we are work first. This is most important and it probably sends a signal that if you didn't finish it, you're in trouble. So you have that as an option. Or you could start off the conversation with walking into their office and say, hey, how was your weekend? Or how was your night, or how was you know how was the concert that you went to? Or how is your? You know, I know your son broke his leg. How is he doing with the cast, whatever, some little bit of humanity to Reconnect one human being to another? And then, as you finish up, well, little Johnny's fine. You know his leg scratching and but for the most part he's okay. And you know you got in trouble for climbing the tree and he probably won't ever do that again. And Well, gosh, that's great. I'm glad Johnny's feeling better. So, oh, hey, before I go, did you get a chance to look at that report from last night? I, you're gonna get the same. You either have the reports done or not. You get that answer, but you do it in a human way, with a little bit of love attached. They know you care about them and I'll tell ya if your staff and volunteers, board members, donors, if they know that you love them and care about them, chances are they're gonna work a lot harder for you and with you because of that. So treat them as a human being first.
Tim Barnes:I know there's a lot of things written about this, but I think it's trying to catch people doing things right and not always just trying to catch them doing stuff wrong, because it shows that you notice if they, for example, we talked about someone bringing cookies into the you know it's like, hey, I love cookies, that's right. That's a good thing, isn't it? Oh, that's an awesome thing, thank you for bringing the cookies, you know, but or it's just like hey, I saw you took time with that person, or you know what thanks for going the extra mile. You know, the report you gave gave me actually answers the questions that I had to ask you, but it really helped me understand that. So you're constantly looking to show that I see you, I notice you and I appreciate what you're doing and who you are as a person.
Nathan Ruby:So all right. Next one, for just showing some love with the people you interact with at work, is providing opportunities for them to grow in their career or improve their volunteer experience. So in this it is. If you have a staff person who is struggling, let's say it's a program officer and they have to do a lot of reporting. Let's keep this simple. And let's say the reporting is an Excel spreadsheet and they're really struggling with the Excel spreadsheet and it's costing angst and it's slowing them down and they're getting upset about it. Well, a simple hey, you know what? We've got access to some Microsoft Office training. I could get that for you. Would that be helpful if we got that for you? And then the other program officer's gonna say yes or no, but just giving them opportunities to do their career better, to do their job better, whether it's online training like that, or if you've got the budget to do it, maybe a one day conference somewhere. I mean, we're what, two years post COVID now? So conferences are coming back. There's new opportunities to meet together. Or you know, if you're the executive director and you're going to a chamber event, a four hours or something, and just say to the program hey, I know you've been working hard. Would you like to go with me to the chamber event? So just little things to improve their career, to improve their work, goes a long way to staff saying you know what they care about me, they want what's best for me. And then on the volunteer side and this is something I learned a long time ago you know volunteers, sometimes they toil in obscurity. Things could be difficult for them, but they won't say anything. So one day I walked by and there was. It was somebody we had, a volunteer that was working out in the yard and there was this beat up old gas can that they were using and it was. The nozzle was busted and it leaked gas all over and it was probably not the most environmentally safe thing in the world and probably not the safest thing either. But anyway, and it was like, oh my gosh, can we just go out and get a new gas can? And so I did. I didn't tell the volunteer, I just I went and got a new gas can and brought it in, and about two weeks later the volunteer said I have been. Well, he didn't say the word messing, but I'll use that word. I've been messing around with that gas can for I don't know how long. Thank you for getting me a new gas can. Well, that was easy. And he got a renewed sense of purpose, that somebody cared, that he was what he was doing and that he was important. And so, again, it didn't take a lot, just little things to show people love goes a long, long way. And then the last thing under love is flexibility. And you know, let's face it, tim, we work in small nonprofits and we really can't offer six figure salaries while my small nonprofit can I don't know about others, but mine can't. We don't have generous retirement packages and we definitely don't have free healthcare. I mean, heck, we don't offer healthcare at all. So let's not get too carried away with that. But what we can offer is some flexibility. And so, you know, does a mom, a single mom that's working hard to support her family, but she can't drop her kids off at school until 915. And so she can't get in until 930 and the official work time is nine. Well, can we figure out a way to accommodate that? Can we make it, the system, work for our people? And you know, obviously we can't do that for everybody, we can't accommodate everybody, that would be chaos. But maybe there's some ways that you could do something that's just be a little more flexible to help the people that work with you, to make their lives a little easier, and that is just a really strong way to say I love you and I care about you and you're important to me.
Tim Barnes:The idea of love. It's like we don't talk much about that in business and nonprofit or whatever, and basically what we're saying is just treat people the way that you would like to be treated. I mean you would like to be noticed, you would like to be encouraged. Just be that person and really see people as humans, not as cogs in this organization. Take the time to do that.
Nathan Ruby:Yeah. So you know Tim and I won't bring you topics that we feel aren't important. We never intentionally waste your time, so if we talk about it, then we think it's important for your success as an executive director, and some things are more critical than others, or at least should be at the top of your to-do list. Organizational culture should be one of the most important things you focus on as an executive director. When it comes to leading a small nonprofit, there are a lot of things that are out of your control. A positive organizational culture is in your control and it's your responsibility.
Tim Barnes:So thanks for listening today, and if you'd like to get in touch with us, our contact information can be found in the show notes. That's all for today. Until next time, thank you for listening.
