Using Boldness to Transform Your Fundraising Approach

Announcer: 0:05

Welcome to the Practice of Non-Profit Leadership, a podcast specifically designed for executive directors of non-profit organizations. With a touch of humor, your co-hosts, tim and Nathan, work to provide encouragement, insights and practical strategies to help you be a more effective leader. And now here's Tim and Nathan.

Tim Barnes: 0:28

Welcome to episode 108 of the Practice of Non-Profit Leadership. I'm Tim Barnes and I'm Nathan Ruby.

Nathan Ruby: 0:36

Well, Tim, what was one time in your life that you were really, really bold?

Tim Barnes: 0:45

Well, that's an interesting question, Nathan, and I was wondering if that means also crazy. Do you need to be crazy to be bold, or not Well.

Nathan Ruby: 0:55

sometimes I would say that's within the genre of being bold Sure.

Tim Barnes: 1:00

The first thing that came to mind was I remember nine years ago really feeling like it was time for a change, and I jumped into my current position. There was a lot of unknowns, there was not a lot of finances, but I felt that that was what I needed to do. So I boldly went where no man's gone before and dove into this position and dragged and drug my family with me as well, but I would say that took some boldness to step into that.

Nathan Ruby: 1:30

Oh yeah, absolutely, and I remember that decision and that time so well when you did that and, of course, for well. We're talking on a podcast here. So some of you know Tim, many of you don't, but I've known Tim, we've known each other for years and that is so much like Tim, because everybody that he talked to everybody, that he talked to everybody, that he went to seek counsel and to say, hey, you know I'm thinking about this, what do you think about this? Do you think it's right for me? Everybody's like oh my gosh, tim, that is like that is the exact position for you and you will be so good at that, and I was among those, and so it was an obvious fit. But, just like you said, and I mean, there was very little funding, no future funding to secure your salary. I mean there was none of that. There was, you know, the possibility of a move and you know there was, there was a lot of variables there and so, yeah, that was, that was a bold step to do that and you know I would say it hasn't been the easiest thing. But, man, you've made the world a better place because of that and you've learned a ton and you know, I'm just really proud of you of doing that and making the difference in the world that you do. That's pretty awesome.

Tim Barnes: 2:54

Well, thank you. I feel like I owe you some money now, but we can talk about that later. But what about you, nathan? When was the last time you you were bold?

Nathan Ruby: 3:04

Well, you know, it's kind of the same thing it was. I think the first thing that I think of is when I took my first fundraising job and this was back back in the day, back in the in the last century actually but I didn't even know what fundraising was. I thought it was. I thought it was like sales, which it is. I know the fundraising purists will not appreciate that comment, but it is a lot like sales and I was pretty good at sales before I went into this. So that's kind of how I attacked it. But you know it was pre-internet, you know we still had encyclopedias at home and the library, and so I actually, when the job description came out and it's too long of a story to tell why I was looking for a position in the first place basically went to a library and looked it up to see what it was and what it was about, and I checked out a book and that's how I learned about it. And, thankfully for me, the people that hired me also hired a consultant and I've talked about Bruce before, bruce Bonnixson and he taught me so much. I mean, he taught me what I know today when it comes to fundraising, and so I had a great mentor and a great coach to help me. So, yeah, so, but but stepping into that and not having a clue of, really, of what it was and how I would do and if I could do it so that was, that was definitely a bold, a bold step. So so well, certainly, when engaging with donors as nonprofit leaders, we have to be bold. If we are not, then we run the risk actually it's well, I guess it's almost guaranteed to happen of leaving money on the table. Donors will not make their best gift if we do not boldly ask them to do so.

Tim Barnes: 5:03

So today we're going to kind of keep our theme of fundraising, but we're looking at boldness, the importance of boldness in fundraising, and we have five points that we're going to share today that, hopefully, will help us be a little more bold when it comes to donors and fundraising. So, nathan, I know this is something you're passionate about, your experience, and I'm excited to learn from you today. So why don't you, why don't you lead us through the boldness aspect?

Nathan Ruby: 5:30

All right. So here's how to be bold five points for when you're doing your year-end fundraising this year or fundraising anytime it doesn't have to be year-end, all right. So number one is embrace the fear. Asking people for money, especially the larger up the up the scale you go in, larger and larger gifts is a. It is going to bring out the emotion of fear and I don't know. Tim, I'll ask you before I answer. But you know you've been doing a lot more fundraising in your role lately and you've been making some pretty big ass. But you've been doing it so much you probably don't even think about it anymore. You don't have any anxiety or concern or you probably don't have any fear when you're sitting down with a big foundation and making an ass, right.

Tim Barnes: 6:22

I still have that fear, I think, and I think it's really around. For me probably it's around issues of rejection, feeling like, well, what if they say no? Or feeling like they're rejecting you, which isn't always true it's rarely true, actually. But I think, even though you do it so much, you're going to have to be very careful. I don't know, Maybe I should ask you do you still have fear? But I feel like there's still a little bit there. Once you get into it, you get excited about what you're doing, but I think there's still some hesitation a little bit.

Nathan Ruby: 6:54

Yeah, I have the same thing, maybe for different reasons. And you know, obviously there is the if I'm making an ask, especially up, higher up the donor size, if I'm making an ask, it's because we need the funding. I mean, we're not asking, you know, we're not. What is it? What's the IV? Harvard, you know that has, you know, a foundation of hundreds of millions of dollars. We don't have that. So if I'm asking, and I'm asking, you know, something big it's because we need the funding. So there's that fear of if I don't get this, then we're in trouble, and so that brings some I don't know some fear and anxiety there of what if they say no, not because of a are they saying no to me, but because the organization needs it. I think there's also for me in my own particular situation. Is I'm supposed to be the expert? Right, I'm supposed to be. I mean I coach people on how to do this, I train people on how to do this, and so I should get like 100% yes rate. I mean I should be. Every time I make an ask I should be getting a yes because I'm the expert. But I don't. I don't always get a yes, and so I think there's some fear of I didn't do it right. You know I should have gotten a yes, but I didn't. And so what does that say about me? And so, anyway, so, and for you, if you're listening to this, it doesn't make any difference what Tim's fear is. Where my fear is, you fill in the blank with your own fear. It's just as valid. Our fears aren't any more valid than yours. Your fears are your fears. So we got to figure out how to get around that, because we all have it, no matter how long you do this. One a couple of ways to do that is one is what is the worst thing that your donor can say? So if you ask, let's say that you've got a donor, that's a, has made $100 gift every year for five years. You think that they could do more. They're involved in the organization, they respond to your social media, they come to your events, they respond to your direct mail pieces, and so now it's like I'm going to ask for $1,000. And so you go in, you know you, you ask some questions, you get ready, you cultivate a little bit, you sit down with them and say, gosh, mr Mr Stoner, you know you've met so much to the organization and thank you for your past giving and you know we've talked about some of the great things we have planned for this for next year and you know it's my job as executive director to make sure we have the funding for this. And would you, would you consider a $1,000 gift to help us meet our goals for this year? And they say gosh, you know, tim, you know we'd really like to, but we were not able to do that. This year We'll probably just be able to do our normal $100 gift. Okay, I mean, how bad was that? I mean really what? They weren't able to do that. And so typically, that's that when I get in no. That would be a sample, an example of getting a no. So all right. Well, if that happens, then I miss something. Either they, you know they're not as excited about the organization as I think they are, or their financial situation changed, or they've got you know something going on that they just don't want to have to make that decision right now. There's a million reasons why they can say no. But it's not the end of the world and it's not painful, it doesn't physically hurt, it doesn't emotionally hurt, it's just the donor can't do what you ask them to do. It's just that simple. So that's a. So just just understanding that if they say no, nothing horrible is going to happen. So that could help to bring down your fear of law. All right. Another one is and I get this a lot from the people I coach, from the executive directors I coach what if I embarrass myself? And being embarrassed is a massive motivator or anti motivator. It keeps people from doing things that they really want to do because they're afraid of being embarrassed and that. And if that's you, congratulations. You're just like everybody else. And I think the easiest way to deal with that if you are not a, if you haven't asked people for money for a lot and you just you're clunky and you're a little awkward and you don't really know how to do it and you'll, you're afraid of what it's going to sound like the easiest way to get around that is to just recognize it right up front and when you sit down and when it's time to ask, when you're, when you're ready to make an ask, something as simple. As you know, mr Mrs Donner, I love this organization and we do such important, amazing work, but I have to tell you I might be the world's worst fundraiser and I'm going to do my very best over the next 15 years to share with you our need and to ask you to make a gift, but it's going to be awkward, but I'm going to do the best I can.

Tim Barnes: 12:10

I think you mean 15 minutes, right? Oh, is that?

Nathan Ruby: 12:14

what I said? Well, some gifts. If it's big enough, it could take 15 years. I'm going to sit here until you say yes, that's right. No, I wouldn't recommend that so yeah, next 15 minutes, but anyway, and I almost guarantee you that your donor will laugh and say something like ah, it's too, infine. And donors do not expect you to be polished, they don't expect you to be perfect, they don't expect you to be, they don't expect any of that. Now, maybe if you're the president of their university their alma mater university and they probably expect them to be polished and perfect. But the president of the university has been fundraising for 30 years, so they know how to do that. But for you expectation is not there. So just address it and say I'm doing the best I can. They'll laugh, they'll chuckle a little bit and say you're doing great, and then you go on about it. If a donor is upset with you, or even a neutral response to a comment like that from you, they're probably not going to give anyway. So there you go Embrace your fear. The worst thing they could do is say no, and that's not going to hurt. And if you're embarrassed about how bad you're going to do the ass, just address it, get it out there, laugh about it and then move on and get the ass out. So that's how a couple of ways you can embrace fear All right. Number two, belief in yourself, and you have got to ask the question why are you doing this? I have seen this over the years. This has come into play a few times. And do you believe deep down in your heart that what you are doing, your organization's vision and mission, is so critical that people would be substantially negatively impacted if you weren't there? If yes, then use that as your belief in what you're doing. So if you're struggling to create courage in yourself, transfer that from I'm not asking, but I'm asking on behalf of the people we serve, and typically it is much easier to be billed when you're helping or asking for somebody else we have some of our regular listeners are in organizations where they have to secure their own funding, and that can be a real problem for some people because they're in a mindset of you know, I'm coming to the donor and asking for support for my own, for me, for myself, for my own salary, and that could be a real hang up. And so when we get in those situations, what we coach is you're not asking for you so that you can pay your own light bill. You are asking for the people that you're serving, because if you're not there serving them. If you can't pay your light bill, then you're not there serving the people who need you. So you transfer that to. This is what I'm going to do. These are the outcomes that I'm going to be able to achieve with this money. So they flip that to the people you're serving and that that is a real helpful way to to get that belief and that excitement and that energy to be bold. What?

Tim Barnes: 15:42

happens if you say you know the question you asked do you really believe is a deep in your heart? What happens if you go? I'm not sure.

Nathan Ruby: 15:52

Yeah, good question. And if your answer to that is no, or even if it's a huh, you know I'm gonna have to think about that Pretty much. If you have to think about it, the answer is no, then I got to tell you it's probably time to get your resume out, get it updated, start looking at indeed start looking at some search firms, because you will never Maximize fundraising if you are not 100% all in. You just won't. You won't convey the energy, you won't convey the excitement, you won't make the phone calls. It's just you can't, you can't halfway this there's another term for that, but we're a family show so I can't use it. You know you can't just phone in your work every day. You've got to get in there, dig in and and and Go as hard as you can go. That's how fundraising is done. And I think sometimes and I actually have experienced this myself before is we get into the, into the mentality of I am here helping these people and big I'm fundraising, or I'm the executive director or whatever I'm doing, and If I don't do this, then I'm letting people down, and that is true. That that is definitely true. But I'll also put out there if you are, if you don't a hundred percent believe in the organization and what you're doing, then you're also letting people down that need you, because you're taking the place of somebody else who could come in with a hundred percent passion for that and that person will do better than what you're doing. But that even goes a step further, because there could be another organization, another sector of the nonprofit world that is just Begging for somebody to come in a leadership position, and that's you. You are a hundred percent, you know, in whatever that is. So you're taking up a space that Somebody else really needs to come in with the passion, and there's a space out there for you, for your passion, that's not filled. So it's kind of a double whammy there, tim. But I'm not saying we don't have bad days, I'm not saying we don't have bad weeks. But if you just if you're dragging into work day after day after day after day after day and you just Don't have the enthusiasm you used to, maybe it's time to take a couple of days off and do some soul searching and really look at is this where I am supposed to be at this time in my life?

Tim Barnes: 18:35

so we're embracing the fear, we're believing in ourselves and in the mission that we're we're going after. So what else is there?

Nathan Ruby: 18:42

take calculated risks. Now, risk is Well, I guess risk is a four-letter word. I was gonna say some people think risk is a four-letter word and it is. But you know, people are a lot of people a lot of times are risk adverse and that's okay. It's okay to. I mean, we don't want to take, we just don't want to willy-nilly risk. But we want to take calculated risk. And when you are With your donors and we've talked about this before and and in other sessions, other episodes, and we've actually some of our our training and our sections that we've had and the coaching that we do, talk about this when you have the right donor. So someone who has given three years in a row, that be kind of a minimum If you, if you know that they've given five years in a row, that's even, that's even better. But let's say that they've had three years in a row, all right, so that would be the right donor at the right time. This one's a little bit risky or a little bit trickier to figure out is is this the right time to ask the donor, you know if they have, they just has the IRS opened a audit? You know if if last week the IRS called them to do an audit. I would say now is not the right time to make an ask, but if we know that it's the right time, or we think it's the right time to ask for the right gift, so we know what they're really excited about in your organization and we know that because we've asked them and they told us that they're really excited about X, or really excited about Y, or really Excited about Z. We know what they're excited about and then by the right person. So we know who makes, who has the most influence. Maybe it's you that's the best influence. Maybe it's your board president. Maybe it's somebody else, maybe it's a staff person. You know who has the best influence. If you know those four things, oh man, it is time to ask, and ask big. You know we asked for ten times their annual gift, or 15 times, or 20 times. That is a calculated risk because we think we know those answers. And if we think we know those answers, then it's time to go and it's time, it's time to ask big. And you know if you, if you're the executive director, you've got somebody who's given for five years, you're pretty sure it's the right time to ask. You know that they're excited about, specifically about one of your programs. You know that if you take one of your board members with you because they're neighbors and well, their neighbors and they like each other, and you don't ask for a large gift in in relation to what they've been giving, I Will say you're doing your organization a disservice because you didn't take that calculated risk and and that's that's the same. That's the same, no matter the size of gift. If you're asking for a hundred bucks or if you're asking for a hundred thousand dollars, that applies the same. There there's no different based on the size of the gift.

Tim Barnes: 21:50

And knowing some of those answers and taking the time to figure that out provides the opportunity to be bold in asking those things.

Nathan Ruby: 21:58

Right, right because during that timeline, when you're when you are you to find the answers of those four questions, it's, it's through the cultivation process. So you, you've maybe taken six months and you've had, you've met with the donor two or three times and so or four times and you've seen them at an event and you've seen them at the grocery store, if you're local and it's you've developed a relationship and you've asked these questions and so you can take the risk because You've had those conversations, you built trust, they know you. Anytime we talk about fundraising, you always have to remember that fundraising is Personal, it is relationship, it is. If you are not building a relationship with your donors, you're missing the boat. So so it you can be risky here. You could take this calculated risk because you've taken the time to develop the relationship and you know, or you think you know, the answers to those questions. Fourth number four take action. And when it comes time to take action, one of the things I love is momentum, and we just did an episode, tim, you did an episode a couple, two, three, four back on on momentum. And momentum in fundraising is really important. And and here's why, let's say that you have five Donors that you want to reach out to and schedule a schedule, an appointment with your little apprehensive and you know Nobody likes to pick up the phone and dial the phone, and you know, schedule a time, that's that, that's difficult. But let's say you did, you do the first one and oh my gosh, they said yes. Well, that's a little bit of a of a little mini high. You know that that's exciting, that's fun. They said yes and we know we're gonna get to see them and this is great. When you hang up the phone, pick up the phone again and call number two and you will have more enthusiasm in your voice, you will have a better Attitude, you, and it comes across on the phone, it. You may think it doesn't, but it does. So the more excited you are, the more Enthusiasm you have. Your donor will pick up on that and will be more likely To actually say yes because they hear it in your voice. So let's say we make our second call and, oh my gosh, they said yes, well, we're not stopping there. Number three dial. Number four dial. Number five dial. Do them all in a row and you will be surprised at your percentage of yeses to a visit will go up Because you're using that momentum. That momentum creates excitement. Donors will hear that excitement in your voice and Let me tell you, everybody wants to be part of something that's exciting and fun. So if you're giving them the opportunity to, to be part of a visit, to spend an hour together, and you're gonna talk about this, this person's favorite charity, which is your charity, and you know you, you know them and you like them and they know you and you know we're gonna go have coffee, we're gonna go have a An adult beverage, we're gonna go hang out somewhere and I'm gonna just give you a quick update, tell you all the great things we're doing. People want that, they want excitement, they want fun, they want to have. You know, life is monotonous enough, right, tim? And we've you know it's hard enough, and so if you're offering your donor a little fun, a little sunshine, they'll take it and that will come across. Momentum is a huge Positive when you're making phone calls and you're trying to fundraise. Okay, number five, I saved this one for last. This one is a little, a little different maybe, but I still think it's. It's really part of this, of being bold, and this is playing off of Off of number one, which you remember is embrace fear. But number five is fail faster, fail faster. I encourage people that I coach a lot of the time to ask quicker. So we don't want to ask too fast, we don't want to have. You know, if you, if you've had a donor who's given for three years in a row when they're giving, and you know maybe the upper 10% of your donors and you never really talk to them, and you're you, you're saying I'm gonna turn over a new leaf, I'm, you know, I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna meet with my donors and so this is the first time you've met them. Very rarely are you gonna ask the first time you meet them. It's happened before and I've it's happened before, so I'm not gonna say that it won't ever happen, but it it probably won't. So what I'm saying here is you start going into the cultivating process and you're meeting them and you know you met them at their home. You met them at it for coffee, had them come take a tour. You met him. You know, again at event. You I don't necessarily want you to wait for the 15th time that you've been together before you ask. I want you to bring that down to the fifth time or the fourth time or the third time or the second time. We want to ask quicker because we know again, going back to number two, which was not to, we're not afraid. Well, no, number one, we're not gonna be afraid of a no. So if they say no to you, and by 20 plus oh, my gosh, tim, it's coming up on 25 years of fundraising, of fundraising I could count on one hand the number of times that a no from a donor met no, not ever, very seldom, hardly ever does it mean no, not ever. It means no, not right now. So if you ask a little early, maybe before you know those four questions, the answer to those four questions, and you get a no, it's okay, because you might have gotten a yes, um, so I want you to ask quicker, um, and if they say no, then you circle back, you say, okay, I missed something, I, I missed one of those four answers, I got wrong or I didn't have the right information. So then that's a whole another process which is beyond the scope of this episode. But you start to fill in the blanks of okay, what did I miss? Uh, but we want to get out there, we want to fail faster, uh, which allows us to move faster, which gives us more momentum, um uh. Which helps us to take calculated risk, which helps believe in yourself and automatically your fear goes away. Holy cow, tim, I wrapped that up pretty well, didn't I?

Tim Barnes: 28:53

Well, I think this is such an important part, not only in fundraising, but I've, you know, we've talked about the fact that leaders make decisions, leaders take action, and it's so easy, especially when we're fearful, to spend too much time trying to get all the answers and to do all the research. And, oh, I just need a little bit more research, I need a little bit more information. I need sometimes, if we're really honest with ourselves and we look in the mirror, it's our fear talking, we're afraid of failing, and so we got to do a little bit more work. And, right, I just, I appreciate sometimes we just need to do it, just do it and then, well, keep going.

Nathan Ruby: 29:32

Yeah, and and you're avoiding, you're avoiding that the situation, whether it's it's calling the donor, making the ask, having the conversation with one of your volunteers, or having a hard conversation with one of your staff or your board member. But whatever it is, you know we and I'm guilty of it there's not so much in fundraising because because I kind of enjoy that but you know I've got conversations that I've put off longer than I should have because I just I don't mind Confrontation, I don't seek it out. I mean, I obviously I'm not looking for it. If I can avoid it, I I Probably will. So you know we're all susceptible to it. You just that's not our job. You know, as executive directors and as leaders and in nonprofits, that's a job description. Is is to do those things. Fear, that number one is. That is the. I think the biggest thing that holds us back from the success that we could be having is we're just afraid.

Tim Barnes: 30:38

Well, those are great points and I will probably go back and read this again because I and listen to our, to our own podcast, because it's something Definitely need more boldness in our, in my life, and I'm sure others will say that as well.

Nathan Ruby: 30:53

Yeah. So you know, just to wrap this up, the, the, the, the too long didn't read a component or didn't listen. Component is basically you. You have got to get out and be bold your donors actually, I was talking to a donor the other day and it was, it was excellent, um. And her comment was she's talking about how many Donor opportunities. You know. They get invited to events all the time. And they said you know, we could go to a charity event every day of the week if we wanted to. And then she said, the wife said but if you want our best gift, you gotta come talk to us. And it was like, yeah, that's the. You know you're preaching to the choir sister, and and that's it. That's true. And so if you're gonna maximize your giving and we're in as we record this, we're, we're into the fourth quarter and so your end fundraising is coming up if you want to maximize revenue for your end and you want to get out and do some, get some larger gifts to come in, you're gonna have to be bold and you're gonna have to do this stuff. So Hopefully this helped some of the things we talked about today. If you're still struggling and and you're still, you know, yeah, I get it, I listen, I'm listening to you, tim and Nathan, but I'm still not sure how to do that. Oh my gosh, reach out to us. Our emails are in the in the show notes. Get on a call with us and we'll help you walk through some of this stuff and and we'll help you. We'll help you do a little better. Thanks for listening today.

Tim Barnes: 32:31

Just as a reminder, this is the last week to sign up for the fundraising fundamentals. You can find the link in the show notes. That's all for today. Until next time.